Two types of story that make me a little uncomfortable are male and female fantasy. I am not talking about the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre (which I will probably also pick on someday). By my definition a male fantasy story is where the female characters act in exactly the way most men would want and expect, and a female fantasy story is where the male characters act exactly as most women would want and expect.
In a typical male fantasy women are very straightforward and are typically borderline nymphomaniacs. In a typical female fantasy men are much more emotional and romantic than anything else. I honestly don't know many stories that might be considered pure male or female fantasies, but elements frequently show up in individual characters.
One of the things that drives me is the desire to understand what really motivates people. A lot of what I am looking for in a fictional female character is a genuine depiction of what motivates the character. Since I don't have experience in being a woman, I would like characters not to give me an inaccurate impression of what actually motivates women. If a male or female character acts simply as the opposite sex would wish or assume they should, I believe that character does a disservice.
Here is the complication, though. How is an author to truly know what drives and motivates the opposite sex? Without firsthand knowledge of what it is to be either male or female, how can a writer craft a character he or she cannot fully understand?
I decided to take a positive approach to this. If you are male, what do you think is the best representation of a male character by a female author or screenwriter that you can recall? Likewise, if you are female, what is the best representation of a female character by a male author or screenwriter that you can recall?
I realized while writing this that I have not read a large number of female authors. I personally can't think of a well developed and accurately depicted male character from a female author, but I am sure I have read one at some point. I need to pay more attention for this in the future.
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17 comments:
Are you talking about the bible?
I don't share the same hang-ups that you do with the depictions of the opposite sex. If we start picking on the way the opposite sex is shown, soon we'll look at our own sex and realize that it is impossible to be Jack Bauer. And then we'll look at the story and realize that'll never happen. That takes all the fun away.
SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF.
It's fiction, and I don't believe nor expect the author to define reality in a literal way. That's why I read books - I'm interested in the authors art by the story they craft which is based on their own ideas. I want to go places and see things and live in romantic versions of old time periods. Don't bring reality into this.
I understand your point, but don't write me off too quickly. :)
My point is that people develop an understanding about the opposite sex from observation, or assuming that the opposite sex thinks like they do, or using stereotypes. I think that a lot of people are influenced in how they think the opposite sex thinks or should act based on erroneous depictions in either books or movies.
I honestly think that a lot of the relationship problems that people experience can come back to this. To wrong expectations they had about what motivates the opposite sex and what each sex should provide to the relationship. If every other female character I read or see comes from a male point of view, my ability to maintain a healthy relationship with Golden might be damaged (I am using myself as an example because I don't want to pick on anyone else). It isn't because I know better than to think most characters are genuine depictions, but if I didn't know better...
"I think that a lot of people are influenced in how they think the opposite sex thinks or should act based on erroneous depictions in either books or movies."
I disagree with this because I don't give books and movies that much credit. I mean, I live with someone who is the opposite sex, I grew up with a sister and a mother. I went to school with many girls, had many friends who were girls, and now I work with girls. I think it is fairly safe to say that first hand account with the opposite sex is going to be a much greater influence than anything one might read or watch on the tube.
People do have expectations of the opposite sex in marriage that everyone has to deal with. But this seems to be more of a comparison to the way one was raised and the culture of the family..."mom always did the laundry."
There are people who don't have a clue and those who do. Those who don't have a clue are the ones that I am referring to.
I know for a fact that I have met plenty of women who don't have a clue about men. I would assume that it works the other way around as well. How do you think these people are going to form opinions about the opposite sex? I do believe that it will be strongly influenced by the entertainment they enjoy.
Perhaps this will provide a better example. When specific people who really lived are described in movies, the way they are portrayed will impact what you think of that person. I would imagine a typical person's opinion of Ed Murrow was higher after watching Good Night and Good Luck than before. Likewise I would imagine the typical person's opinion of Johnny Cash's dad would be pretty low after watching Walk the Line. We don't know firsthand whether the depictions of those characters is accurate, and the rules of moviemaking don't require that they are, but that doesn't keep people from forming opinions of the real people based on the performance. Just like opinions can be influenced on a specific character level, an understanding of the opposite sex can and will be influenced on a more general level by portrayals in movies and literature.
"How do you think these people are going to form opinions about the opposite sex?"
From real honest to goodness people who are real living people that they interact with on a daily basis - not from something they saw on 'Friends.' I tried to make that point clear on my last comment.
And I think I made it clear that people aren't doing that. :) If they were, then how is it that so many men and women don't understand each other?
I think it is a mistake to believe that since you don't use entertainment to assist in figuring out women that no one else does. If a person is using stereotypes or just projecting their motives on the opposite sex, I think such portrayals can be a powerful verification of what that person thinks he or she already knows.
Beyond that, though, do you know of any female authors that depicted male characters well? :)
I don't mean to be argumentative, but I don't see how people are basing their views of the opposite sex partly or soley based on books and movies. I believe first hand accounts are more powerful than something you read or see in pictures. They people you are reffering to do interact with the opposite sex, right?
Understanding the opposite sex has always been a mystery. Didn't Shakespeare comment on that? So I don't think we can blame "the mysterious distance between a man and a woman" (U2)on books or tv.
Men and women are different. period. Why is it that when a little boy likes a little girl, he pulls her hair? Who knows, but that is normal behavior.
Dust, do you need to fess up. Are you having women issues?
I think the only book by a female author that I have read is Jane Austen. I found her portrayel of men believable, because the book flowed and I didn't have to question the believablity of her characters. BE THAT AS IT MAY, the language was superb and the dialog witty. Do or did people really talk like that. Probably not. But it is fiction and the art of language is important and I believed it.
What about kids and the way they are portrayed. Am I to expect after reading Encyclopedia Brown and the Hardy Boys that all boys were smart and solved cases. No, but I wanted to. The adventures never came my way.
"Dust, do you need to fess up. Are you having women issues?"
I think that is a question best left to Golden. :)
I know some single women out there that are looking for their "Prince Charming" but keep getting dissappointed. They have a warped view of men because of the chick flicks and fairy tales they have watched.
I agree (with dust I think) that many difficulties grow out of un-met expectations. This is even more likely when the expectations are unspoken.
Whether the expectation is unrealistic (i.e. a better valentines gift then the last every year - forever)or not ....
Whether it is formed from observing fictional characters we see in books (or the slightly less fictional characters that our parents turned out to be) the key is to express your expectations and being willing to review them critically in light of your spouse's own toughts.
The good news is - over time, new (and hopefully realistic) expectations will form.
"I agree (with dust I think) that many difficulties grow out of un-met expectations."
That was my point too! But you guys are crazy to think that those expectations are because of girls watching chick flicks. Maybe, 13 year old girls...
Unless, these girls are the most homely, who never been on a date, and don't get out into the real world.
Does the word fairy tale not throw one off? Yes, I know many girls who have met with a wicked witch to have a sleeping potion put on them so that they'll only be woken by the kiss of a prince. That happens all the time. Those fairy tales are dangerous.
Forrest, how many needy people do you regularly interact with? For once I think you are being too literal. :) We are not saying that women, for example, are expecting a literal Prince Charming to arrive on a white horse. There are a lot of women who are looking for someone like a Prince Charming to "rescue" them. Where do you think the idea of a Prince Charming came from? Check with Vernal about this. I kind of think she'll agree.
It works similarly with guy fantasy stuff as well, but the Prince Charming thing was mentioned...
I think this is something I want to discuss tonight to clear things up.
I have to say that people do inadvertently or unknowlingly absorb traits they think the opposite sex have. Otherwise why would romance novels be so popular, and coorespondingly, why would porn be popular. Those stories cultivate stereotypical images that, yes, once you have a real relationship you realize are not true ideas. I think many a relationship has be foundered on those initial rocks. Not that anyone consciously thinks life will be like a book.
There's a lot at writers things about getting in characters heads and portraying them accurately, not just as an extension of what you think.
I'll leave the discussing to you all! :) NOT that I don't have my opinions! LOL!
I think I'll close this (maybe) by clarifying my motivation on this post.
Had I remained single, I am quite sure that depictions of women in books and movies would have had an influence on my understanding of women. It wouldn't have a greater impact than my relationships with women in real life, but it definitely would have had an impact on what I thought womens' motivations were.
This is not the case because I constantly pepper Golden with questions about her motivations, other women's motivations, and fictional characters' motivations, so I have more of a clue.
Some women like to joke about the fact that men don't have a clue about them, but a lot of men don't have much of a chance of getting a clue. The same works for some women, but guys don't sit around joking about that (that I am aware of). If we just understood each other, wouldn't that cure a lot of turmoil?
You're closing with a question!? I think your motives are to bait us to further comments on this blog! :) :) :)
You may be onto me, but that comment and this response just added two comments to the post anyway. :)
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